The time a General Officer sold a Soldier out over mistreating a book.

(Both prints for the price of one)

The  304th MI Bn Commander is upset about  the cartoons and wrote the following e-mail. (Please see below) You may note that the e-mail is not just addressed to the editor of the "At Ease" (Sierra Vista Herald) but also several high ranking Army and DoD Civilians.  I think there is a  misunderstanding.   I don't think LTC Monnard understands that these cartoons were in response to a specific event(s).  Specifically - a US Army Colonel kissing the Koran during a formal apology to Tribal leaders after a US Army Sniper used the Koran for target practice.

From: "Monnard, Richard M LTC MIL USA TRADOC"
Date: July 17, 2008 8:55:39 AM MST
To: "Moncur, Angela L CIV USA IMCOM"
Cc: "Miller, Thomas L COL MIL USA TRADOC", "Roberts, Michael W CSM MIL USA FORSCOM", "Krausman, James R Mr CIV USA TRADOC", "Manigault, Steven E CIV USA TRADOC"
Subject: Fort Huachuca At Ease - 16 July 2008 - Vol 6 No 29


Ms Moncur,
As the current commander of the 304th MI Battalion, one of my responsibilities is the training of international officers as part of the International Military Education and Training Program (IMET). At the present time I have over 15 officers from Middle Eastern countries including Iraq, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia.
In the last two additions of the FORT HUACHCUA AT EASE, the Pvt Murphy Cartoon has depicted the Koran and persons of Middle Eastern decent in a negative light. I understand the Bill of Rights and founding principles of this Nation and I have read the sm all print on page 2 which indicates that the paper is not affiliated with the US Army or FortHuachuca. However, it is hard to understand how one would not perceive this being a US Army and Fort Huachucaenterprise, when the title of the paper is FORT HUACHUCA AT EASE. Furthermore, the installation allows the Sierra Vista Herald / Bisbee Daily Review to distribute this periodical to all military members and their families.
We would appreciate it if we could be a bit more sensitive to those who are here on this installation as part of the International Military Education and Training Program. It is a key component of US security assistance that provides US training to students from allied and friendly nations. The IMET program is also an investment in ideas and people by providing democratic alternatives to key foreign military and civilian leaders. Additionally, the IMET program exposes students to the US professional military establishment and the American way of life, including amongst other things, U.S.regard for democratic values, respect for individual and human rights and belief in the rule of law.
Thanks for your help in building partnerships in regions where we have Soldiers fighting and dying every day.
LTC Mike Monnard
304th MI Battalion

 

 

                                                         

__________________________________________________________________________________

Dude,
I just like to visit the Website for a laugh. It's a valuable break in my day. I really don't want to read about your personal problems with a brigade commander. That ain't funny and, though I like your comics, I question whether your attempt to drum up sympathy on your Website isn't just a little bit childish.
Kevin Young
Fort Sill Cannoneer staff writer __________________________________________________________________________

Mark,
Your friend Jason (SGT Rob) here.
The Light COL, has it all wrong.
I loved the toon!
And since when do the thoughts and beliefs of a piece of paper, (the Koran) mean more than my soldiers, friends, and patriots lives?
The country of Iraq doesn't care about our soldiers.
So why the big deal of the Koran.
Call me crazy but how many times have they burned our flag?
How many of us have they killed?
To them we are all infidels.
Infidels sometimes use important stuff to shoot at.
Does that make every soldier a bad person?
NO.
Does the one Militiaman/Insurgent that blows up my convoy and kills my friends make every Iraqi a terrorist?
NO.
Screw the apology, and then men that allowed it to be blown out of proportion in the firstplace, and the "Liberal" media that made it such a big deal, let them take my units patrols awhile......maybe then they will take a few shots at the Koran.
I didnt cry or whine when my bible got burned up in a fire after being blown up on patrol.
I just bought a new one!
Get over it.
This is war,
Feelings get hurt.
Grow up, and put the thought and concentration on how to put this counter-insurgency to rest so I can be with my family more than 12 months at a time between deployments, instead of writing emails to a cartoon writer that makes us Dogfaced, Jarheaded, Flyboy, Anchor Clankers smile!
Walk a mile in our infantry boots.
Triple Dog Dare ya!

_______________________________________________________________________
Mark,
When will it ever end? When we go to another country we are to respect that
countries culture and laws. Why do we have to do the same when we get home? It
seems that LTC Monnard has forgotten that first amendment right to free speech
in his push to be PC for arab visitors. He cannot shield them from it, nor
should he be trying. We are currently in a war attempting to teach democratic
principles to an arab country, Iraq. How must it look to them when we abrogate
one of our most fundamental and important rights? We should be leading by
example, embracing even that speech that we don't agree with or that embarrasses
us.

Mike
_______________________________________________________________________

As I understand it, LTC Monnard’s complaint is that the cartoon offends the Middle Eastern students in the IMET program, thus making his job a greater challenge than it needs to be. He mentioned that the goals of the program are to expose “students to the US professional military establishment and the American way of life including amongst other things, U.S. regard for democratic values, respect for individual and human rights and belief in the rule of law.” I believe that the cartoon has achieved these goals. We, as a people, are guaranteed the right to express ourselves; Private Murphy, the avatar of the common soldier, has accomplished that goal. We also do not censor the press, as noted in his comment that ”the installation allows the Sierra Vista Herald / Bisbee Daily Review to distribute this periodical to all military members and their families.” The command structure at the installation respects freedom of the press, which further illustrates the principles that we hold dear. LTC Monnard appears to disagree, however, as he appears to elicit the PAO’s support to violate those principles, rights, and beliefs with the poignant close “Thanks for your help in building partnerships in regions where we have Soldiers fighting and dying every day.”

To site a more glaring example of “insensitivity,” if we are to categorize Private Murphy as such, I offer this example. I recently attended the graduation of an Information Resources Management class at the National Defense University (NDU) at Ft. Lesley J. McNair; Washington, DC. About one quarter of the class was comprised of senior foreign military officers. At the conclusion of the ceremony, everyone in the auditorium was asked to stand. Music began to play over the auditorium’s sound system. I expected to hear something like “Pomp and Circumstance”. Instead, I heard “God Bless the USA ” by Lee Greenwood. Looking about the room, I noted some mystified looks from the foreign officers and many of the Americans in attendance. To be sure, the other Americans in the audience and I appreciated the sentiment of the song. Personally, I believe that had Francis Scott Key not beat out Mr. Greenwood by 190 years, the song “God Bless the USA” may have become our National Anthem. Neither the President of NDU, a USMC Lieutenant General, nor any of the other senior U.S. government officials present seemed to object to the selected song. I suppose that no one at NDU shares LTC Monnard’s sentiments.

Does he not see the incongruity between his comments and his oath to uphold and defend the constitution?

Ruben Rosario
CW3, USA (Ret)
_______________________________________________________________________
So you're saying a senior TRADOC officer might just be in full flight from reality? That's pretty much how I remember it-only with more mandatory nonsense.

Thanks for the very, very accurate cartoons.
________________________________________________________________________


Dear Mark
I have been thinking about the issue that has been brought up by your cartoon
PVT.Murphy, which I have enjoyed a lot and remembering my days in the service
(ARNG, USA and USAR) with 24 years of service and being a senior NCO.
You definitely have hit the feeling of the troops about being in Iraq, those who
feel that are caught in the middle of the rules of engagements, that sometimes
are conflicting, that I feel history is repenting itself like our troops back in
the Vietnam days.

The longer we stay the more problems and incident are going to happen , in a
place where you don't know who is the enemy ,everybody looks the same and we are
caught in war between brother vs brother. which is not easy for our guys over
there.

I remember as a young NCO going into Desert Storm with very simple rules of
engagement (not to shot Mosques etc) but we went theres kick butt ,cause our
damaged (with the Big Red One) liberated Kuwait and left there.

Now we are stuck, we have opened a pandora box, that will not close, so we need
to get our act together and also have the right to express our opinions.

As mentioned before our middle east allies have troops training in this country,
we need to exposed to our system of government and the right of the average
citizen to openly criticize our government and leaders.

That does not happen over there, yet some countries like Oman, Kuwait and Qatr
are more liberal than Saudi Arabia and are opening up, like allowing women more
freedoms to include to vote.

If we are going to try to show them a democratic system to their old tribal and
absolute strong man system, we need to show we are a open society that respect
everybody, we don't need to shield from this, nothing to hide from our Arab
friends, this might take time as they say Rome was not built in seven days

So please keep putting up old Murphy and taking about the issues that the US
Army is facing, i can back what I say because I BEEN THERE, DONE THAT AND BOUGHT
THE T-SHIRTS (twice) and my wife complain to many T-shirts.

Keep up the good work and the fight
Santiago A.Flores
SFC (ret)

________________________________________________________________________

Dear Mark:
Perhaps LTC Monnard should look at his own words a little more closely.
"Thanks for your help in building partnerships in regions where we have
Soldiers fighting and dying every day." The soldiers fighting and dying every
day are being killed by individuals who seem to carry their religion on one
shoulder and a weapon on their other. I served nine months in Iraq surrounded
by people who preached one thing and practiced another. Perhaps they should
be reminded of the old adage "If you can't take the heat then stay out of the
kitchen".

Sincerely,
SGT John Cervone
 

______________________________________________________________________

 

Mark, Unfortunately, LTC. Monnard got it wrong. He talked about teaching respect for Democratic values, human rights, etc. but he wants to show his "guests" the same type of controlled society that they all come from. Sometimes Democracy and First Amendment rights are not convienient and they can be a little embarrassing. Seeing that and having LTC Monnard explain that to them, would do those foreign officers a world of good. We don't train foreign officers well or do them a service when we impose self censorship just to make their stay comfortable.

Thanks for your great cartoons. They depict military life more correctly than some people would like to admit.

Thanks,
Ed Napier
USA (Ret)

_____________________________________________________________________________

Sir,

I understand the point you were making with the cartoon. I think it’s a good example of how far the PC movement has taken this country down the tubes.

We can’t address our troops without fear of stepping on someone’s toes or offending them in such a way as to have us standing in front of the boss trying to explain to them what you were trying to do.

There was a time when we as Americans were not afraid to stand for what is right and say to hell with what the others think. Yes, I know one has to be diplomatic and there is a ton of ass kissing being done on a regular day to day basis. But It’s times that we start realizing that we need to start acting like the big dog in the yard instead of a cowering little puppy in the corner, afraid to stand up for ourselves and what we feel is right.

I mean look at us. We can go to the moon and back not just once but several times, fight a war in the jungles of Viet Nam, make major strides against diseases, help prop up other countries economies at the expense of our own, and should we decide to do so, exterminate ourselves in a radiation filled haze. And yet here we are, begging some bunch of rag heads to increase the production of oil so tha t we can have cheap gas to run our cars with. We cower to extremeists and pay them off to leave us alone, and so forth. What has happened to our national will is summed up so well in your cartoon.

The old saying is “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.” Should be the watch word to these “student” at Ft Hoochie. You don’t like the culture, then stay out of it in your little cubicle on base. This is OUR country and they must adapt to OUR customs, just as they expect us to adapt to theirs. Unfortunately, we do the adapting and they do the laughing.

Keep on doing what you’re doing, sir.

Oh and please dpn’t discontinue the mis adventures of Murphy..you know as well as I that all because you pick up that third stripe, the Law still applies, only it’s been modified to include the added stuff. I even coined a “law” while I was a young sergeant in the Marines and it still applies today. I call it “Cole’s Law” which states If it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen on my watch and I’m the one who’s going to have to find, fix and explain why it occurred. And in the end, I’m going to be the one to pay for it.”
I’m now a 1st Lt and a company commander in the Virginia Defense Force and it STILL applies only 3xs worse.


Semper Fi

Lloyd Cole
1st Lt. INF VaDF
S/Sgt USMC 73-86

___________________________________________________________________________

Mark,
Sorry to see you getting grief over the cartoons about the Koran and Arabs . What sort of irritation does the LTC show over cartoons in the local papers making fun of the Commander in Chief?

He would have probably been upset over 'SGT Mike in VietNam"

I enjoy your cartoons and agree with other writers that the PC Police need to be shook up now and then.

Good luck!!!!

Jay Ward Viet Vet
Slick pilot 71-72 B troop 3/17 Cav
___________________________________________________________________________
Mark,
Ok, I agree with you. I have travelled a bit over the years and I “respect” the unique nature of another culture. However, I take issue with people who get too PC. The strength of our country lies not in the PC nature but in our individual backgrounds/culture. That also means it is our greatest weakness when we let people divide us.
IF the LTC has an opinion he must also understand that the US Constitution gives you the right to publish your own opinion. But I also saw the whole Koran thing as “kissing” someone too…even before you published your cartoon.


CW2 William Bowe
_____________________________________________________________________________
Hi!
Got my Sgt. Murphy - spent an hour reading and re-reading it and
laughing my ass off. Thank you very much.

Regarding the foreign officers at Ft. Huachuca - They need to develop a
sense of humor, and failing that, thicker skin. I am tired of the US
Military having cater to the wishes of people from other countries. I
miss the days of gunboat diplomacy and colonialism...

Thanks!
Ray Spitz

_____________________________________________________________________________
Mark,
It should be nothing new. From that guy who shared a gin drink name at Bragg to this guy. Some people lack the ability to either see realism or have the sense of humor to laugh at themselves.
The cartoon about the US kissing butts over the Koran incident is exactly what most of the soldiers here in theater felt and thought. You just put it in ink for us.
Gotta love the first amendment. It's what separates us from them.
Got Book 5 in today. I now have the complete collection (well, except for the very first one). Gonna hate to see Murph go.
To steal a line from Bob Hope: "Thanks for the Memories"
Dan
 

 

__________________________________________________________________________

Mark,

I've got something to say: First I’d like to state that the Army would have a massive PR nightmare if they attempted at any time, for nearly any reason (this one included, I’m sure), to censor or ban a local paper on Fort Huachuca. This is in direct violation of both the freedoms of speech and press, of course guaranteed under the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution. As a veteran myself, I know that all members of the armed services, enlisted, officer, and Lieutenant Colonel Monnard included, swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of these United States. Though he states that he understands the Bill of Rights, I’m afraid I must remind him that the word “uphold” is defined by Webster’s as: “to support against an opponent” among others. This doesn’t sound like his oath and understanding are altogether in line.

Furthermore, the cartoons in question were an opinion, granted, but the events driving that opinion were of the following nature: A uniformed soldier in a foreign country acted in such a way that was offensive to that country’s people and culture. Although I don’t agree with the way the Army handled the incident, the soldier in question nonetheless was not entitled to conduct himself in any way that offended or affronted that society and culture. The same can be said, and should be expected, from the 15 officers from Middle Eastern countries (or any foreign uniformed service members) who are now in a foreign country with a society and culture that is different from their own. It’s kind of a “quid pro quo,” wherein if our soldiers must be “sensitive” to a foreign culture even if they don’t like it, shouldn’t the same rules apply to foreign soldiers here? They don’t have to like how much freedoms are guaranteed to our society, but that’s not their call. I mean, even the most senior officials in the United States government are not protected from being the subject of free speech and press. If the sitting President of the United States, as well as senior Senators (to name a few) can be subjected legally to political opinions and satire, then how are foreign personnel elevated above our highest executives and legislators? They don’t have the right to demand, or even expect, our fundamental way of life to change just for them, especially when it directly conflicts with GUARANTEED freedoms granted by the Constitution. If we bend to that way of thinking, then the next step will be female soldiers having wear niqabs on Fort Huachuca in the presence or view of these 15 Middle Eastern officers, or at the very least, they’ll not be allowed to hold their heads high and look men in the eye while in their presence. The latter point I’m sure sounds extreme, but the fundamental point is the same. Being “a bit more sensitive” at the expense of our own rights becomes a double standard at best, and at worst will degrade the very principles and values that men and women swear to “uphold and defend” every time they don a uniform of the United States military.

Keath Warlick USMC

__________________________________________________________________________
 

Here you go, Mark! My opinion only, of course.

It seems to me, as a retired Army officer and fairly well educated and traveled man, that we are being very one sided in our efforts to accommodate those of other cultures. When I went to other countries in the course of my duties I was encouraged to learn the language and culture of the host nation as a sign of respect to them (a good idea). Yet I am forced to choose between a foreign language and English in my own country. I'm told that it is disrespectful to Muslims to make jokes about their religion yet there seems to be very little concern for ridicule and threats by Islamic sources of Christianity and Judaism, not to mention direct violence that focuses on the religion rather than actions or politics. I will give respect but only for so long unless respect is returned in kind. And every Army leader worth their salt should have learned that respect is a two way street.

I think the call for more sensitivity toward Americans and American values and sacrifices is long overdue and if some young battalion commander has a problem with that then maybe he or she should re-read their commission, the part at the top that talks about "fidelity". Your first concern should be with and for your soldiers, not with the sensitivities of guests who barely return the same consideration we give when we are in their country. Be considerate. Be a good host, by all means. But require the same respect from our allies as they demand from us. Perhaps the International Military Education and Training Program should institute a block of instruction on "Respect for American Culture" as part of their curriculum? Make it a graded block, colonel.

Roger L. Perkins
US Army (Retired)

 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

As a soldier in the United States Army and a Muslim I understand the tension. It is a difficult job in and of itself without leadership flip flopping all over the place. True enough using a book for target practice is not in keeping with TRADOC (but then again, nothing we have done over there is).

There is a degree of discipline that has been lost due to the nature of our work there and the environment our soldiers find themselves. While we may have been ready to go a do "A JOB" there, were we ever prepared for "The JOB" we have been tasked with? I don't think so.

I remember back in the '80s when I was a young Airman serving in the Air Force, a publication came out yearly entitled "The Soviet Threat", and the last one that I was able to get my hands on talked about future conflicts would not be in the manner that we trained constantly for back then (remember "Reforger"?) It did speak specifically that we would be in conflict in an urban environment, house to house, and town to town. Hmmmmmmmmm??? Is Nostradamus still around somewhere?

Yes, let the punishment fit the crime, not alter it to suit those who are offended. Stuff like this happens all over the world with other armies, but the world seems fixed on us every time one of ours farts in the wind. What a damn shame.

Keep doing what you are doing. You are a venue that we can travel to and laugh and at the same time think and learn something of ourselves. Thank you. - RogueMedic

___________________________________________________________________________

I am all for being sensitive to the culture of other peoples, particularly when we are trying to bring them into a modern democratic society.  But I have one question:  When will we demand the same sort of respect back?  Part of teaching others what democracy and freedom is involves holding them to the same standard we hold ourselves to.  And that part of the lesson plan has always been missing from the political and military planners handbook.  Respect, I was always taught, is an earned commodity and goes both ways.  You want me to respect your culture? Stop blowing each other up; stop being too gutless to turn in those who do; and stop holding us to a standard you are unwilling to meet yourself.  At least meet us half way.
 
And I'll ALWAYS be on this particular soap box. - Roger

_____________________________________________________________________________

Where is the logic?  Where is the justice?  Why are Americans legally allowed to burn the American flag in public to make a political statement, but a soldier is reprimanded for shooting a Quran? 
 
Bad taste?-Probably,  Bad judgement?-Yes,  Illegal?-Show me - Tom

_____________________________________________________________________________

OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!
 
Why is our President apologizing for something some Snuffy did? I haven't heard any apologies for the beheading of Daniel Pearl. The desecration of the Blackwater operatives. The rape of Jessica Lynch. 9-11 - John

______________________________________________________________________________

I totally agree with your views Mark. Being an Army Reservist and a college student, I see appeasement like this everyday at school and the craziness that goes alone with it. I hear some of the so called "moderate Muslims" condemning terrorism but then go ape sh*t the second they hear Iraq War or Israel or Bush. To me, this doesn't sound like a moderate individual. Growing up in California, I'm socially color blind and view everyone as an equal. Although I do know when someone is crazy and I do know some of these individuals are crazy, not moderate thinkers. -Adam

_______________________________________________________________________________

Dear Mark
Saw the changes you made to the website...me thinks you hit a nerve here LOL. Something that America I fear will have to learn is a lesson we can take from one of the Caesar's, please do not ask me which one as I never could keep them straight.
It seems that there was a city in Gaul, which is today known as France that the Roman Legions had laid siege to. Caesar told them to throw open their gates and surrender, which they did...big surprise. Seems even then surrender was the one thing the French did well, although in all fairness I must admit that when you have a Roman Legion camped on your door step, your options are a tad limited.
Because they had not put up a fight the city was not sacked, the women were not raped, the treasury was not looted...all SOP for war in those days. As Caesar was riding his chariot through the city, the citizens of the city threw flowers in front of him in thanks for sparing them. (Like I said, some things never change.)
As he rode in his chariot, one of his body guards who would stand beside him with an oversized shield and scan the crowd for incoming arrows, stones, mud or other forms of nastiness said "Caesar...the Gauls love you." To this Caesar replied "I care not if the Gauls love me, or hate me...just so long as they fear me."
This is I fear the lesson we will have to teach the world, and it will take more than a single teaching to do it. We cannot be Santa to the entire planet, with our gifts of food, relief efforts to every disaster, natural or man made and all the rest and get crapped on in return. If our bread basket reigon were to be struck with an famine,(God forbid) it would be felt literally around the world.
Frankly I am glad to be out of uniform these days my friend, and glad you are too. Because eventually America will realize this (I hope) and when she does...it will get ugly in ways only men like ourselves can understand.
Take care my friend, and keep up the good work. You speak for a lot of guys who cannot speak out any other way. Proud to call you my friend. - Wolf

_______________________________________________________________________________

Criminal?! The only criminal act I've witnessed here is the one perpetrated by a Major General in the U.S. Army. As a Marine vet, I have extensive first-hand experience with radical Muslims myself, and their reaction to this soldier's poor judgment is absolutely expected by me. In fact, the reaction of the Iraqis in question doesn't surprise me or upset me, because this unique blend of double-standards and ignorance is their way (hence the well-documented millennia + worth of violent intolerance in their culture). What angers and disappoints me is that a General-grade officer, along with a Colonel, would so willingly and eagerly throw one of their own under a bus like this for the sake of saving face, and then try to sell it as justice for a "criminal act." This Major General should be prosecuted for a significant failure of leadership and lose the honor to serve the United States Army and the soldiers whose lives and livelihoods he has been entrusted with. I agree with everyone's point that the soldier exercised bad judgment, but his pales mightily in comparison with the absolute disgusting display of poor judgment by MG Hammond and the Regimental CO in galvanizing the very ideals which inspires and festers radical Islamism. It's a BOOK! My last thought is this -- It's OK for the Army to ask this young man to take lives, or give his own, but not OK for him to fire rounds at an inanimate object within the confines of a secured firing range? Give me a break... - Keath

_______________________________________________________________________________

In a perfect world, where our military had not been politicized and sensitized to near the point where it is no more then a well armed peace corps , the only reaction/response from the leadership to this incident
would have been to inquire about the size of the shot group. Can anyone imagine General Patton, General MacArthur, or General Bradley doing anything so disgraceful, and publicly kissing ass like this? I sure can't. - Brian

______________________________________________________________________________

Mark,
I’ve been reading your work for years. I like them all. Including the ones on today’s page (May 29, 2008). I appreciate that while your experience in the sandbox gives you the perspective that so many in the US lack I do have a problem with your statement that the Qur’an is “just a book.” It is more than that for over a billion people on this planet. It is a symbol and needs to be treated with respect. It is the same with the Bible, the Torah, or the Tipitaka.
The believers of any faith would be right to be incensed at the destruction of the representative text they believe are central to their spiritual world view. The physical text is indeed just a book, however the action of destroying that text is utterly disrespectful. I know many illiterate people that have their holy scripture in their home and use it to pray or contemplate. For these people it isn’t even a book. It is truly the only symbol in their home of their belief. Often times it is their most prized possession.
I am not spiritual, but I have beliefs as well. If someone used my favorite philosophy, economics, or science book in such a manner I would also be incensed.
The soldier in question made a mistake. It is a career ending mistake. He should have considered the consequences of his actions before doing them.
I hope he learns from this and becomes a better person as a result. With respect - Lance
_______________________________________________________________________________

Just wanted to touch on a couple of points made by Lance.

First, the Qur'an is absolutely "just a book" as long as whoeverpurchased or owns it feels that it is. That's the key here. I wouldagree that the Qur'an is a symbol and needs to be treated with respect when talking about other peoples' property. I would agree to this being a criminal act if the soldier took an Iraqi Muslim's Qur'an and used it for target practice, but that's not the case here. Of course you'd be
angry "if someone used your favorite philosophy, economics, or science book in such a manner," but would that really be because of your beliefs, or because these books are YOURS? If I purchase the exact same economics book for $100 and decide to use it in this manner, would you still be angry?

Second, try not to confuse the issue. We're not talking about the emotions involved. Sure, Muslims in Iraq have a fundamental right to be "incensed at the destruction of the representative text they believe ...
central to their spiritual world view," as with any religious group in similar circumstances. But we're not talking emotions, we're talking law, and at the end of the day, what was done was not illegal or
criminal and in no way should be treated as such, as the Qur'an in question didn't belong to anyone other than the soldier who viewed it as "just a book." If we believe that the destruction of a religious text,
or other relic, is worthy of legal action, then I suppose a Christianity-founded country (e.g., the United States) would have the fundamental right to declare war, or at least take internationally legal
action, against, say, Israel, where the Or Yehuda city government sponsored the burning of hundreds of New Testaments very recently. Obviously, those New Testaments didn't belong to American Christians, so the right to retaliate or enact justice doesn't lie with American Christians, agreed?

The soldier in question did indeed make a mistake, but in no way should it be a career ending one. This is not about right and wrong, mistakes and lessons, or crime and punishment. Make no mistake out there, this is about an image, and a knee-jerk reaction to salvage it. What kind of message are we really sending current and future soldiers? - Keath

_______________________________________________________________________________

Replying to Lance, Your argument that these are more than books is good however, I just have to ask if this is your scenario then it would seem that most of these believers would be in violation of their own faiths. Not to be idolaters, the worship of graven images whole thing. Faith goes beyond this. You do not need a book, building, fancy clothes or hats. I try to be Christian and in the bible it states that wherever two or more of you meet this is my church. So in my humble opinion it is just a book.  - Michael

________________________________________________________________________________

I am so confused as to this issue. Sure, we have a large amount of radicals  that hate us. Is it because of our religions or policies? We have extremist  fundies over here that organize private militias and bomb abortion clinics, yet  no one uses their holy texts for target practice. I see a sentiment of Pax
Americana (or manifest destiny) among the posters. A book is just not a book,  but a tool. Read Fahrenheit 454 (not sure about the actual flashpoint of  paper).

Yes, we need to tell these extremists that we will not tolerate their jihad,  but, as some posters have pointed out, that will only come with complete fear.  So, do you want to impose a fourth Reich? The America I believe in is a beloved  America, not a feared Amerika.

Perhaps we should nuke (no conventional weapons) their holy sites and all of  their oil fields. In order to save this village, we will need to burn it down.

I'm sorry if I write so disjointed, it's hard to organize my thoughts on a  confusing issue. I am tolerant of other religions especially since I'm a  Taoist, but the fear of extremism contradicts my tolerance. Keep on soldiering,  but don't forget to always question authority. - Gerry

________________________________________________________________________________

Where the hell is the ACLU. Somebody burns an American flag and gets arrested, and they are all over that. They don't seem to be real interested in defending a soldier who put some rounds through collection of bound paper on a firing range, and as a consequence is having his career destroyed. Oh, that's right, the ACLU doesn't defend those who defend our country, only those who are opposed to it....my mistake. - Scooter Trash - Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Don't know if you'll care but I went off on a liberal on amazon's discussions. Keep the cartoons comin, they give us something to laugh bout over here -  Matt